Thursday, April 4, 2013
Whose Fault Is It Anyway?
Zeus complains in Book I of the Odyssey:
Ah how shameless--the way these mortals blame the gods.
From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes,
but they themselves, with their own reckless ways,
compound their pains beyond their proper share (1.37-40).
What is Zeus saying? Is he right? Whose fault is it anyway that Odysseus has been wandering for ten years -- that the suitors are eating him out of house and home? From what we know of the story so far (think of the story of Agamemnon, Ajax, Menelaus and Nestor as well as Odysseus), are the gods to blame for our suffering and successes-- or are we?
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I believe that Zeus is saying the humans blame the god's for everything bad that happens in the world even if it is the humans’ fault. I also believe that he is saying that it is portrayed that the gods are responsible for everything, but the gods know that they are only in control for so long until the humans take situations out of their grasp. I believe that he is right in that he believes everything bad is blamed on the gods because it is portrayed that the gods have all the power in the world. Even though the gods have control over many occurrences in the world, they are not in complete control of every single person’s life on Earth. An example of a story which is both the gods’ and the human’s fault is the story of Agamemnon because there are many parts of the story which the gods could have controlled, but also that Agamemnon could have controlled. The story is about how Agamemnon was stranded at sea, but when he was finally able to return to his kingdom, he was killed by his wife’s new lover. While he was away, his wife started to see another man, and when Agamemnon returned, the other man became jealous and killed Agamemnon. I believe that it is the gods’ fault, but also Agamemnon’s fault for many reasons. I believe that the gods were at fault because they did not help Agamemnon return to his home. They let Agamemnon stay stranded at sea instead of having Poseidon come and assist him back home. This would have helped Agamemnon get back to his kingdom, but they did not help him at all so they are at fault. I also believe it is Agamemnon’s fault because he stayed out of his kingdom for so long that his wife lost faith that he would return to the kingdom. When he finally did return, his wife’s new lover killed him because he became jealous when he finally returned.
ReplyDeleteIn the above statement, Zeus is basically stating that through reckless actions and pure ignorance, humans bring suffering upon themselves. He is also saying that humans just want someone else to place the blame on; therefore, they unfairly place it on the gods. I believe that based on the examples in The Odyssey, Zeus is almost completely incorrect in saying this. One portion of the book that exemplifies Zeus’ incorrectness is in the case of Agamemnon. Agamemnon was stranded at sea for an extremely long time with no knowledge of how to navigate back home. During this time period Agamemnon’s wife, began having an affair with another suitor. When Agamemnon final returned home, he was not greeted with the love and joyfulness that one would expect from their wife, but rather he was killed by his wife and her jealous suitor. This situation is almost entirely the gods’ fault because if they had simply helped Agamemnon return safely to his home rather than allowing him to be stranded at sea, Penelope would never have fallen in love with another suitor and Agamemnon would not be dead. If the gods did not want to help Agamemnon return home, they could have at least let him know that a plot to kill him was going to be made if he returned, giving him the choice whether to return home to see his wife with the high probability of being killed, or never return home and find somewhere else to reside. Then, the matter could have been taken into Agamemnon’s own hands and only he could be held accountable for the result. An extremely similar situation is at hand for Odysseus, the only difference is that his wife is still very much in love with him, but her suitors are still planning to kill Odysseus and his son, Telemachus, if they ever return home. If the gods were to help Odysseus return home earlier, the suitors never would have gotten so invested in his wife. This would mean that Telemachus and Odysseus would not be placed in a situation that will result in their probable deaths.
ReplyDeleteIn the quote above Zeus is saying that humans blame all of their problems on higher powers, but really they are in control of their own miseries. Zeus is also saying that humans believe that the gods are in control of everything that happens in their lives, but in reality the gods are only in control of the humans lives until the humans take responsibility for their own lives. I agree with what Zeus is saying to an extent. Zeus is correct when he says that humans blame everything that goes wrong on the gods. Human miseries can be blamed on both parties. This being said humans are not completely in control of their miseries some of their despairs have to do with the gods. Many times when the humans are trapped somewhere it is a mixture of the god’s and the humans fault. Most of the time the gods do not do anything to help the humans. An example of this is when Odysseus is trapped on Calypso’s island. This is partially Odysseus’s fault because when he and his men got hungry they hunted down the precious cattle of Helios, the sun god. As a punishment their ship got wrecked. Odysseus washed up on Calypso’s shore there he was held captive for many years. Calypso, who is a nymph wanted to make Odysseus her immortal husband. Odysseus being trapped on calypso’s island is also part of Odysseus’s punishment. The god’s made no attempt to try to help Odysseus out of this situation which is why some of Odysseus’s despairs are the god’s fault. The only reason why it takes Odysseus so long to get back to Ithaca is because of Calypso. By the god's not helping Odysseus they just create a bigger problem. Since it is taking so long for Odysseus to come back home other men have displayed interest in marrying Odysseus's wife. The men are extremely angry with Odysseus and Telemachus and have even diverged a plan to kill them when they return. If the god's would have helped Odysseus get home none of these problems would have occurred.
ReplyDeleteIn Book 1 of the Odyssey, Zeus claims that humans are to blame for their fate even though they try to blame the gods. I believe that Zeus is wrong because Poseidon continually pulls Odysseus off course on his journey home. In the very beginning of Book One the narrator calls Odysseus, “the man of twists and turns driven time and again off course,” (1.1-1.2). Odysseus is traveling by sea and Poseidon is the god of the sea; this means that Poseidon can pull Odysseus of course as much as possible. He continuously does this because Poseidon is holding a grudge against Odysseus. The reason for the grudge is explained in Book 1 as well, “Poseidon, unappeased, forever fuming against him for the Cyclops whose giant eye he blinded,” (1.81-1.82). Poseidon could never let go of what Odysseus did and, as a form of punishment, he always pulled him off course. Therefore he had an immense amount of trouble trying to return home. It took him a total of ten years. If it was not for Poseidon, a god, Odysseus would have gotten home a lot sooner than he did. That is why I believe that the gods deserve the blame that humans put on them. Also since Odysseus did not return home right away, suitors decided that it would be okay for them to come to his house and try to marry his wife. This caused a lot of trouble for his wife, Penelope, and his son, Telemachus. This caused the other gods to feel sorry for Odysseus and their family, “then every god took pity, all except Poseidon,” (1.23-1.24). This quote shows that the gods felt sorry for him but they did not help him because they did not want to cross their own brother Poseidon. Poseidon held on to his anger with Odysseus until Odysseus was able to return home, “He raged on, seething against the great Odysseus till he reached his native land,” (1.24-1.25). Poseidon continuously pulled Odysseus off course for 10 years until he reached home because he remained mad at him until Odysseus returned to his household. This is why the gods are to blame and the humans do not have to take responsibility for everything that happens to them.
ReplyDeleteIn the odyssey Zeus complains about humans blaming gods, I don’t believe his complaints are valid. The complaints are not valid, because the human’s success, failure, and suffering result from actions committed by the gods. One example of gods interfering leading to suffering a failure is when they keep thrashing Odysseus and restrain him from returning home. “when he should reach his home,
ReplyDeleteIthaca- though not even there would he be free of trials,
Even among his loves ones- then every god took pity.
All except Poseidon. He raged on, seething against
The great Odysseus till he reached his native land. “(1.020-024)
Even after all the torture that the other Gods had given Odysseus, they would not stop and kept delaying his journey. It is not Odysseus’s fault that he has not returned, it is the god’s faults for torturing him and torturing his family. They have a right to complain if gods are the ones forsaking these burdens onto the humans. Also, as doctor and Nate explained during class in the Iliad it was the goddesses who even began the bloody war that resulted in many deaths and all the suffering for people in Troy, and people in Greece. If it weren’t for the gods there would be none of this suffering in the first place.
An example of people receiving success from pleading to gods is when Telemachus cannot get rid of the suitors and Athena comes down and helps him. Without Athena, Telemachus would never have even imagined on going off on a journey to find his father’s whereabouts.
Why should Zeus be complaining when sometimes the god’s can make mistakes of their own. Why should people not grieve and blame the gods for their mistakes
In the quotation above, Zeus is stating that humans incorrectly blame the gods for their suffering and pain when the fault is really their own. He is saying that humans do not want to take responsibility for their mistakes and instead blame them on a higher power. Throughout many Greek myths, the gods have a notable presence in the fates of the mortals, but it is unfair to blame them fully for any misfortune, because their actions are indirectly because of the humans actions. Most of the time, the Gods only influence the futures of mortals when they are moved to do so. There is an understanding between the gods and the mortals, where if one prays to a god for something, the God grants that person the favor they are asking. If one curses a god, there are severe consciences which could ultimately lead to death. A mortal who has a story similar to this is Ajax, on his return home from the Trojan War after surviving a rough adventure. “’In the teeth of the gods,’ he bragged, ‘I have escaped/ the ocean’s sheer abyss!’ Poseidon heard the frantic vaunt/ and the god grasped his trident in both his massive hands/ and struck the Gyraean headland” (4.565-68). Ajax was lucky because he survived the Trojan War and he had returned home, but he spoiled his luck my insulting and cursing Poseidon, which led to his death. Although his death was at the hands of a god, it was essentially his own fault for unfairly insulting Poseidon, who would not have killed him if he had not angered him. Despite the fact the gods can change a mortal’s fate; it is ultimately up to the humans to pray to, to cherish, and to sacrifice to the gods so that their life can be pleasant. This way, the humans are inspired into doing good deeds and being good to their gods because in the end, it is up to them to decide their fate, not the Gods. It is unfair for humans to blame the gods for their suffering because they know what will happen if they insult a god and it is their decision to insult them or to pray to them, and then suffer the consciences. Therefore, Zeus is correct in saying that characters such as Odysseus, Ajax, and Agamemnon are to blame for their own suffering.
ReplyDeleteZeus is just being uppity because he feels that people are unjustly blaming him and the other gods for their problems. This accusation is completely valid as the gods caused the war in the first place. If Aphrodite, Hera, and Artemis hadn’t been so immature about acquiring the golden apple and started the beauty contest then the Trojan War would have never happened. Their gods what worth is a golden apple to them? Could they not just get Hephaestus to make them one? The fault lies not on the people but the god’s immaturity and inner fighting. It should be generally accepted by them that the most beautiful is Aphrodite as she is the goddess of beauty. They cause suffering simply because they lack self-control or maturity. If Zeus doesn’t like the gods being blamed then they better clean up their act as right now their nothing but omnipotent children.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Jarl of Whiterun: COME AT ME BRO!
Zeus is saying that the mortals blame the gods for everything, even though it is the mortals’ fault.
ReplyDeleteZeus is correct in saying that the mortals’ problems are their own fault, because they cause problems for each other by lying, cheating, and murdering, as shown in this passage from The Odyssey 1.50-52: “So Hermes warned, with all the good will in the world / but would Aegisthus’ hardened heart give way? ” Despite the warning of the god Hermes, Aegisthus decided to go through with his plan to get Agamemnon killed anyway. However, just as the Gods cannot always be blamed for the mortals’ problems, they do not always deserve praise for the prosperity of mortals. Menelaus’ wealth came from no one but himself, as stated in The Odyssey 4.91-94, “Much I suffered, many a mile I roved to haul / such treasures home in my ships. Eight years out / wandering off as far as Cyprus, Phoenicia, even Egypt / I reached the Ethiopians, Sidonians, Erembians-Libya too.” Here, Menelaus didn’t mention a god giving him guidance or protecting him. But he sacrifices to them nonetheless. So overall, despite the fact that Zeus is correct in saying that